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彼得是小石子,为什么起这名呢?

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发表于 2015-2-4 18:44 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 nandeht 于 2015-2-4 21:56 编辑
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 17:40
这篇解释认为"教会是从彼得第一个人开始的", 由"教会第一人"推出"彼得是教会的磐石".

从哪些经文可以 ...
13 耶稣到了该撒利亚腓立比的境内,就问门徒说:人说我(有古卷没有我字)人子是谁?
14 他们说:有人说是施洗的约翰;有人说是以利亚;又有人说是耶利米或是先知里的一位。
15 耶稣说:你们说我是谁?
16 西门彼得回答说:你是基督,是永生神的儿子。
17 耶稣对他说:西门巴约拿,你是有福的!因为这不是属血肉的指示你的,乃是我在天上的父指示的。 18 我还告诉你,你是彼得,我要把我的教会建造在这盘石上;

前面有说耶稣是“神的儿子”的必须另有解释:其认识并不完全。

这里耶稣明确问门徒自己是谁,大家众说纷纭,没有一个人说出耶稣是以色列人盼望的弥赛亚。只有彼得说耶稣是弥赛亚“基督”,得到主的称赞,并指出这是耶稣在天上的父指示的,并且“还”告诉彼得。。。

这是人类第一次承认耶稣是弥赛亚,是天上的父所指示,此人是有福的:你是彼得,我要把我的教会建造在这石头上。
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发表于 2015-2-4 18:48 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 nandeht 于 2015-2-4 22:10 编辑
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 18:03
彼得是基督徒的"代表", 是一种常用的解释.

Scholars have debated precisely what Jesus means by rock. Protestants, following Augustine and Luther, have sometimes contended that the rock in this passage is only Jesus himself (references in Cullmann 1953:162 n. 13). But by Jesus’ day the Greek terms petros (Peter) and petra (rock) were interchangeable, and the original Aramaic form of Peter’s nickname that Jesus probably used (kēphas) means simply “rock” (Cullmann 1953:18–19; Ladd 1974b:110; Carson 1984:368; France 1985:254; Blomberg 1992:252).

here Peter functions as the foundation rock like the apostles and prophets in Ephesians 2:20–21. Jesus does not simply assign this role to Peter arbitrarily, however; Peter is the “rock” because in this context he is the one who confesses Jesus as the Christ

这两句是原贴关键句,表明作者立场的。

不要找其它打圆场、安慰人的句子。就好像保罗在林前14章明明是斥责灵恩派的立场,但是灵恩派就是抓住几个打圆场、安慰人的字词当成灵恩派方言存在即真理的佐证了。
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发表于 2015-2-4 18:50 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 18:00
呵呵!

And I also say unto thee (κ'αγω δε σο λεγω). "The emphasis is not on 'Thou art Peter' over against 'Thou art the Christ,' but on Καγω: 'The Father hath revealed to thee one truth, and I also tell you another" (McNeile). Jesus calls Peter here by the name that he had said he would have (约翰福音 1:42). Peter (Πετρο) is simply the Greek word for Cephas (Aramaic). Then it was prophecy, now it is fact. In verse 17 Jesus addresses him as "Simon Bar-Jonah," his full patronymic (Aramaic) name. But Jesus has a purpose now in using his nickname "Peter" which he had himself given him. Jesus makes a remarkable play on Peter's name, a pun in fact, that has caused volumes of controversy and endless theological strife.

On this rock (επ ταυτη τη πετρα) Jesus says, a ledge or cliff of rock like that in 马太福音 7:24 on which the wise man built his house. Πετρο is usually a smaller detachment of the massive ledge. But too much must not be made of this point since Jesus probably spoke Aramaic to Peter which draws no such distinction (Κηφα). What did Jesus mean by this word-play?

I will build my church (οικοδομησω μου την εκκλησιαν). It is the figure of a building and he uses the word εκκλησιαν which occurs in the New Testament usually of a local organization, but sometimes in a more general sense. What is the sense here in which Jesus uses it? The word originally meant "assembly" (使徒行传 19:39), but it came to be applied to an "unassembled assembly" as in 使徒行传 8:3 for the Christians persecuted by Saul from house to house. "And the name for the new Israel, εκκλησια, in His mouth is not an anachronism. It is an old familiar name for the congregation of Israel found in Deut. (申命记 19:4; 申命记 23:2) and Psalms (诗篇 23:5), both books well known to Jesus" (Bruce). It is interesting to observe that in 诗篇 89 most of the important words employed by Jesus on this occasion occur in the LXX text. So οικοδομησω in 诗篇 89:5; εκκλησια in 诗篇 89:6; κατισχυω in 诗篇 89:22; Χριστο in 诗篇 89:39, 52; αιδη in 诗篇 89:49 (εκ χειρο αιδου). If one is puzzled over the use of "building" with the word εκκλησια it will be helpful to turn to 彼得前书 2:5. Peter, the very one to whom Jesus is here speaking, writing to the Christians in the five Roman provinces in Asia (彼得前书 1:1), says: "You are built a spiritual house" (οικοδομεισθε οικο πνευματικο). It is difficult to resist the impression that Peter recalls the words of Jesus to him on this memorable occasion. Further on (彼得前书 2:9) he speaks of them as an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, showing beyond controversy that Peter's use of building a spiritual house is general, not local. This is undoubtedly the picture in the mind of Christ here in 马太福音 16:18. It is a great spiritual house, Christ's Israel, not the Jewish nation, which he describes. What is the rock on which Christ will build his vast temple? Not on Peter alone or mainly or primarily. Peter by his confession was furnished with the illustration for the rock on which His church will rest. It is the same kind of faith that Peter has just confessed. The perpetuity of this church general is guaranteed.(RWP)
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发表于 2015-2-4 18:51 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 nandeht 于 2015-2-4 22:13 编辑
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 18:16
三种观点在前面文章中已经介绍过.

总结各种观点, 我个人认为"磐石指着基督,或指着所信的真理", 会更容 ...
没有证据rock一定是比较神圣崇高唯一的“磐石”,就是个rock。peter怎么不能是rock 了?原文上下文和文法词义决定了,彼得就是这个rock,只不过不要把这个rock当做主耶稣那种和合本磐石就可以罢了。
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发表于 2015-2-4 20:14 | 显示全部楼层
老N是个急性子,一早被窝里还看手机,24小时在线。
(以后回你贴都等你那边凌晨,看你怎么睡的着。
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发表于 2015-2-4 22:18 | 显示全部楼层
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 17:40
这篇解释认为"教会是从彼得第一个人开始的", 由"教会第一人"推出"彼得是教会的磐石".

从哪些经文可以 ...
而且根据太16章紧接的"权柄"经文, "彼得"也掌控着"天国的钥匙", 这种解释与天主教的说法本质上没有两样.
(太 18:18 [和合])
我实在告诉你们,凡你们在地上所捆绑的,在天上也要捆绑;凡你们在地上所释放的,在天上也要释放。

所以基督徒都有天国的钥匙(用福音领人进天国),和彼得一样,“凡你们在地上所捆绑的,在天上也要捆绑;凡你们在地上所释放的,在天上也要释放”。

按希腊文的文法,这句的意思是“凡你们在地上所捆绑的,在天上也已经捆绑;凡你们在地上所释放的,是在天上也已经释放”;基督徒要在地上捆绑或释放,必须先在天上有捆绑或释放。是天上开始一切捆绑和释放的工作,而非基督徒,基督徒只是宣告这些工作。

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发表于 2015-2-4 22:34 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 仓里的谷 于 2015-2-4 22:35 编辑
nandeht 发表于 2015-2-4 18:44
13 耶稣到了该撒利亚腓立比的境内,就问门徒说:人说我(有古卷没有我字)人子是谁?
14 他们说:有人说 ...

约翰福音1章,不管是施洗约翰,还是开始的几个门徒,对耶稣的称呼都包括“弥赛亚”,“神的儿子”,“以色列的王”。约翰福音9章,耶稣向治好的瞎子说明自己是“神的儿子”,那人就拜他。
马太福音16章,耶稣没有说“你彼得是第一个得这启示的人”。为了圆解释,强加给彼得“信基督第一人”的称号是没有根据的。


次日,约翰看见耶稣来到他那里,就说:“看哪, 神的羔羊,除去(或译:背负)世人罪孽的! (约翰福音 1:29 和合本)


我看见了,就证明这是 神的儿子。” (约翰福音 1:34 和合本)

听见约翰的话跟从耶稣的那两个人,一个是西门·彼得的兄弟安得烈。他先找着自己的哥哥西门,对他说:“我们遇见弥赛亚了。”(弥赛亚翻出来就是基督。) (约翰福音 1:40-41 和合本)

拿但业说:“拉比,你是 神的儿子,你是以色列的王!” (约翰福音 1:49 和合本)




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发表于 2015-2-4 22:43 | 显示全部楼层
nandeht 发表于 2015-2-4 18:51
没有证据rock一定是比较神圣崇高唯一的“磐石”,就是个rock。peter怎么不能是rock 了?原文上下文和文法词 ...

教会建在磐石上,“他掌握天国钥匙”,这些话已经把“磐石”放到一个极崇高唯一的地位。
事实上,除了天主教,教会从没有把彼得弟兄放到那个地位上。

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发表于 2015-2-4 22:51 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 仓里的谷 于 2015-2-4 22:52 编辑
nandeht 发表于 2015-2-4 22:18
(太 18:18 [和合])
我实在告诉你们,凡你们在地上所捆绑的,在天上也要捆绑;凡你们在地上所释放的,在 ...

16章原文是第二人称,单数“你”,并非复数“你们”。
你前面取一个解释,后面用另一个解释,为了保持一致,只好强行改变文法。

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发表于 2015-2-4 22:52 | 显示全部楼层
仓里的谷 发表于 2015-2-4 22:34
约翰福音1章,不管是施洗约翰,还是开始的几个门徒,对耶稣的称呼都包括“弥赛亚”,“神的儿子”,“以 ...

前面已经说过了,另有解释:其认识并不完全。他们是传话,闲聊,不是confession。不然不会耶稣当面问的时候哑炮了,只拿旧约各个先知来一个一个试着对号。
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