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耶弗他献女儿为祭疑问?

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发表于 2008-9-25 11:11 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

士师记11:30---39节记述了耶弗他照他向神所许的愿献上自己的女儿为祭,到底他献的是什么祭???为什么他女儿和同伴一同哀哭呢?

发表于 2008-9-25 11:25 | 显示全部楼层

我也不大明白,估计是终身不嫁之类的事。反正我是很讨厌耶弗他。他凭什么献上自己的女儿为祭。一点也不尊重别人。

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发表于 2008-9-25 11:54 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用小脚印在2008-9-25 11:11:00的发言:

士师记11:30---39节记述了耶弗他照他向神所许的愿献上自己的女儿为祭,到底他献的是什么祭???为什么他女儿和同伴一同哀哭呢?

 

那里耶夫他是在许愿,而不是献祭,而对于特殊的许愿,也就是把人许愿,一般情况下是可以赎回的,但是要付出相应的价值

1 耶和华对摩西说:
2 “你晓谕以色列人说:人还特许的愿,被许的人要按你所估的价值归给耶和华。
3 你估定的,从二十岁到六十岁的男人,要按圣所的平,估定价银五十舍客勒。
4 若是女人,你要估定三十舍客勒。
5 若是从五岁到二十岁,男子你要估定二十舍客勒,女子估定十舍客勒。
6 若是从一月到五岁,男子你要估定五舍客勒,女子估定三舍客勒。
7 若是从六十岁以上,男人你要估定十五舍客勒,女人估定十舍客勒。
8 他若贫穷,不能照你所估定的价,就要把他带到祭司面前,祭司要按许愿人的力量估定他的价。

 

但是有一种属于永献的,是不能赎回的

28 “但一切永献的,就是人从他所有永献给耶和华的,无论是人,是牲畜,是他承受为业的地,都不可卖,也不可赎。凡永献的是归给耶和华为至圣。

 

这人或物是归耶和华的,具体做什么我们不知道,但是是不能赎回的,耶夫他的女儿是就属于这类永远归耶和华的。

就不能嫁娶了,所以他女儿和同伴一同哀哭

30 耶弗他就向耶和华许愿,说:“你若将亚扪人交在我手中,
31 我从亚扪人那里平平安安回来的时候,无论什么人,先从我家门出来迎接我,就必归你,我也必将他献上为燔祭。”

 

36 他女儿回答说:“父啊,你既向耶和华开口,就当照你口中所说的向我行,因耶和华已经在仇敌亚扪人身上为你报仇”;
37 又对父亲说:“有一件事求你允准:容我去两个月,与同伴在山上,好哀哭我终为处女。”
38 耶弗他说:“你去吧!”就容她去两个月。她便和同伴去了,在山上为她终为处女哀哭。
39 两月已满,她回到父亲那里,父亲就照所许的愿向她行了。女儿终身没有亲近男子。
40 此后以色列中有个规矩,每年以色列的女子去为基列人耶弗他的女儿哀哭四天。

 

其实这里也给我们看到一个教训,许愿不是随便的事情,不能靠情感,一激动就随便说的,你是要必须向耶和华还愿的!!

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发表于 2008-9-25 12:26 | 显示全部楼层

读旧约时,不难看到上帝在那世代和那背景下,要向人显主的威严、圣洁和信实……,献祭对于上帝不是根本,是主不喜悦的,重在于对上帝的顺服、听命。而且至高威严的主不是人们用来随便呼唤来去的神,当人们随意在神面前许愿或发誓了,就应当无论何事都要实现这个许诺,这是很严肃的事。而历史事实被《圣经》神的话给不客气的记载下来了,这是神的意思,这是上帝要显明这些历史事迹,好给后世他的百姓作为借鉴和警诫!

 

耶弗他做出这样的事,是人类愚昧的体现……

 

我们如今虽然是恩典时代,有主耶稣的救恩,但神的要求并没有因此松懈或改变。新约主的要求则更高,要从我们的心灵,从我们的动机作为重点。(看见妇女就动淫念的就是犯了奸淫罪,需要向主悔改其罪,并改之…),旧约是不同的。

若心里起了私欲,就:

【雅1:14】 但各人被试探,乃是被自己的私欲牵引诱惑的。
【雅1:15】 私欲既怀了胎,就生出罪来。罪既长成,就生出死来。

 

所以:

【提后2:22】 你要逃避少年的私欲,同那清心祷告主的人追求公义,信德,仁爱,和平。
【提后2:23】 惟有那愚拙无学问的辩论,总要弃绝。因为知道这等事是起争竞的。

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-25 12:30:06编辑过]
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发表于 2008-9-25 14:13 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用小脚印在2008-9-25 11:11:00的发言:

士师记11:30---39节记述了耶弗他照他向神所许的愿献上自己的女儿为祭,到底他献的是什么祭???为什么他女儿和同伴一同哀哭呢?

这里的应该是指永远归耶和华,不可以嫁,终身服事神.

 

记得俺当年也请教过两位牧师这个问题,

 

当年,俺的理解是献燔祭,,,,就问牧师是不是太残忍,神为什么要接受这种愿,不网开一面,让耶弗他不用献了.(那个时候,俺初信不久,傻傻的,幸好两位牧师都特和蔼可亲,没教训俺,反而耐心的单独给俺上了二个小时的课)

 

我记得当年牧师没有评价耶弗他的愿是否鲁莽愚蠢,而是说到,归给主,终身事奉神,其实是一个非常大的荣耀.....然后又讲到顺服的话题,给俺说她自己的见证.....

 

听完牧师的话,俺有一种预感,我今后的道路可能不能照俺的心愿发展了,唔,事实果然如此......早知道就不去问这个问题了.....

 

这件事对俺影响比较大,所以,请大家容忍俺在这里絮絮叨叨一下下.....[em197][em208][em207]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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发表于 2008-9-25 16:54 | 显示全部楼层
以下是引用愤怒的刺猬在2008-9-25 14:13:00的发言:

这里的应该是指永远归耶和华,不可以嫁,终身服事神.

 

记得俺当年也请教过两位牧师这个问题,

 

当年,俺的理解是献燔祭,,,,就问牧师是不是太残忍,神为什么要接受这种愿,不网开一面,让耶弗他不用献了.(那个时候,俺初信不久,傻傻的,幸好两位牧师都特和蔼可亲,没教训俺,反而耐心的单独给俺上了二个小时的课)

 

我记得当年牧师没有评价耶弗他的愿是否鲁莽愚蠢,而是说到,归给主,终身事奉神,其实是一个非常大的荣耀.....然后又讲到顺服的话题,给俺说她自己的见证.....

 

听完牧师的话,俺有一种预感,我今后的道路可能不能照俺的心愿发展了,唔,事实果然如此......早知道就不去问这个问题了.....

 

这件事对俺影响比较大,所以,请大家容忍俺在这里絮絮叨叨一下下.....图片点击可在新窗口打开查看图片点击可在新窗口打开查看图片点击可在新窗口打开查看

 

 

 

你是认为自己嫁不出去了?[em293]

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发表于 2008-9-25 17:31 | 显示全部楼层

耶弗他所许的愿是:将女儿作为燔祭献给神。耶弗他向神还愿是照着自己许的愿行的,这是显而易见的,他的女儿是作为燔祭献于神了。圣经中对于事实的陈述,你们为什么要有疑问?这女儿没有当作燔祭献与神,以色列人要每年为她哀哭四天?人能终身不嫁侍奉神,这是一个值得生者每年为之哀哭四天的事情?都是为死人哀哭。她不但死了,而且是死在关乎神的事情上,不但如此死去,且作处女的时候就死去了。你们这些属肉体的,就用肉体的情欲曲解圣经。你们不能接受这样的事实,因为你们不能接受神让这样的事情发生而将责任归给神和神的律法。耶弗他许愿的时候,他不可能指望着他回家的时候他家的哪只牛啊羊啊的出来迎接他,然而他仍然要许这个愿。既然他非得要将人献上为祭,临到他的就是他最亲爱的惟一的女儿!按律法说,在律法之下,许愿必须还愿,无论许什么愿都必须还愿。人不能靠律法称义,即使人按着律法行,仍然行不出律法(的义)来。耶弗他在还愿的事上遵行了律法,在许愿的内容上却违背律法。他为什么会许这个愿?为什么行不出律法的完全而犯律法?都因为他自己的罪。律法本是善的,显明人的罪。律法本是叫人知罪。律法没有规定人可以将人献祭,于是你们就认为这样的事情不可以发生。人要作出怎样的行为不是律法能禁止的(虽然律法禁止了)。哪一条律法规定摩西不可以击打岩石出水?但摩西此举使自己不能进入迦南地。摩西没有触犯律法条例触犯的是神。律法本是为不法之人预备的,直到神的儿子来到。在主耶稣的救恩没有揭开之前,地上的人都受制于律法的管制。耶弗他在这样的事情面前,为了表明顺服神的义,就只能自己承担自己的罪给自己带来的痛苦的结果。这就是人在律法之下向着神的信义和忠诚,他被列在“信”的代表者之列。

 

另外,不要在这里拿着“许愿必须还愿”来牢笼别人,你为你的教训担当得起吗?承诺一定兑现有时往往将自己送到魔鬼的权势之下。

 

下面经文,仅供察考之用。


11:31 [cbgb] 我从亚扪人那里平平安安回来的时候,无论什么人,先从我家门出来迎接我,就必归你,我也必将他献上为燔祭。 < | >
     [niv] whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
     [asv] then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, it shall be Jehovah's, and I will offer it up for a burnt-offering.
     [jnd] then shall that which cometh forth from the door of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, be Jehovah's, and I will offer it up for a burnt-offering.
     [kjv] Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
     [nwb] Then it shall be, that whatever cometh out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it for a burnt-offering.
     [rsv] then whoever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the LORD's, and I will offer him up for a burnt offering."
     [web] then it shall be, that whatever comes forth from the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, it shall be Yahweh's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. 
     [ylt] then it hath been, that which at all cometh out from the doors of my house to meet me in my turning back in peace from the Bene-Ammon -- it hath been to Jehovah, or I have offered up for it -- a burnt-offering.'
     [bbe] Then whoever comes out from the door of my house, meeting me when I come back in peace from the children of Ammon, will be the Lord's and I will give him as a burned offering.

 

11:37 [cbgb] 又对父亲说,有一件事求你允准,容我去两个月,与同伴在山上,好哀哭我终为处女。 < | >
     [niv] But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."
     [asv] And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may depart and go down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.
     [jnd] And she said to her father, Let this thing be done for me: leave me alone two months, that I may go and descend to the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.
     [kjv] And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
     [nwb] And she said to her father, Let this thing be done for me: Let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
     [rsv] And she said to her father, "Let this thing be done for me; let me alone two months, that I may go and wander on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions."
     [web] She said to her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may depart and go down on the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions. 
     [ylt] And she saith unto her father, `Let this thing be done to me; desist from me two months, and I go on, and have gone down on the hills, and I weep for my virginity -- I and my friends.'
     [bbe] Then she said to her father, Only do this for me: let me have two months to go away into the mountains with my friends, weeping for my sad fate.

 

11:39 [cbgb] 两月已满,她回到父亲那里,父亲就照所许的愿向她行了。女儿终身没有亲近男子。 < | >
     [niv] After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite custom
     [asv] And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew not man. And it was a custom in Israel,
     [jnd] And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned to her father, and he performed on her the vow that he had vowed; and she had known no man. And it became a fixed custom in Israel,
     [kjv] And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
     [nwb] And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned to her father, who did with her to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
     [rsv] And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had made. She had never known a man. And it became a custom in Israel
     [web] It happened at the end of two months, that she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she was a virgin. It was a custom in Israel, 
     [ylt] and it cometh to pass at the end of two months that she turneth back unto her father, and he doth to her his vow which he hath vowed, and she knew not a man; and it is a statute in Israel:
     [bbe] And at the end of two months she went back to her father, who did with her as he had said in his oath: and she had never been touched by a man. So it became a rule in Israel,

 

11:40 [cbgb] 此后以色列中有个规矩,每年以色列的女子去为基列人耶弗他的女儿哀哭四天。 <
     [niv] that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
     [asv] that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
     [jnd] that from year to year the daughters of Israel go to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
     [kjv] That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
     [nwb] the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
     [rsv] that the daughters of Israel went year by year to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.
     [web] that the daughters of Israel went yearly to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.
     [ylt] from time to time the daughters of Israel go to talk to the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite, four days in a year.
     [bbe] For the women to go year by year sorrowing for the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite, four days in every year.

[此贴子已经被作者于2008-9-28 9:30:11编辑过]
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发表于 2008-9-25 17:58 | 显示全部楼层

圣经记载的其中人物所行的事情,有的是上帝喜悦的,得到了好的回报,如大卫取去拔示巴,此事虽错,但其后对拔示巴的不弃,应是讨了上帝的喜悦,所以生了所罗门。有的是上帝不喜悦的,则没得到好回报,就如扫罗等撒母耳不到,就自己献祭;耶弗他许愿,实在没有上帝的要求,是他自己许的,以他后来只做了6年(?)士师的情况看,我的想法与三楼相近是他“靠情感,一激动就随便说”的。

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发表于 2008-9-25 19:18 | 显示全部楼层

关于耶弗他献她女儿为祭,到底是献为燔祭,还是终身为处女事奉神,这个问题,有不同的解答,俺当年是认同前者的,现在,是认同后者的.呵,现在摘自段不同的解经资料,供大家作参考.

 

 

〖 耶弗他愚蠢地许了一个愿,为何神容许他依照自己的誓言而行呢? 〗


??圣经读者对耶弗他誓言的性质理解错误了。根据士师记十一30-31的记载,耶弗他要对抗强而有力的亚扪人侵略者,就在他与亚扪军兵作决定性一战的前一个晚上,耶弗他向神许了一个庄严的承诺——假如神使他战胜亚扪人,那么,谁人首先从家门走出来迎接,耶弗他必将这人献与耶和华神:「我也必将他献上为燔祭。」

 

??耶弗他所指的,显然是人类,是由他家中走出来的,或是他家庭成员之一,这个人必定非常关心耶弗他,所以会率先走出来恭贺。希伯来经文排除了将动物献为燔祭的可能性,因为翻译作「无论是谁(中文和合本作什么人),先从我家门出来……」的希伯来文,从未应用于动物方面的指称(参Keil and Delitzsch,Josuha Judges Puth.P,385)。

 

??假如将一只动物献在坛上作为燔祭,那当然没有问题(希伯来文燔祭'olah通常有这个含意)。但在今次的特殊情况下,却是照耶弗他所许的愿,将一个人献为燔祭,因为耶弗他所指的,是第一个从家里走出来祝贺他的人。问题就出在这里,因为神的律法一再严禁献人为祭(参利十八21,二十2-5;申十二31,十八10)。

 

??在神面前或在他的坛上献人为祭,无论耶弗他或任何以色列人,也无法想像到如此可憎的事情会讨神喜悦。「你们不可向耶和华你的神面前这样行,因为他们(迦南人)向他们的神,行了耶和华所憎嫌所恨恶的一切事,甚至将自己的儿女用火焚烧,献与他们的神。凡我所吩咐的,你们都要谨守遵行,不可加添,也不可删减。」(参申十二31、32)「你们中间不可有人使儿女经火……凡行这事的……耶和华你的神将他们从你面前赶出去。」(参申十八10-12)神已清楚地颁下了上述禁令,这是众人皆知的。从这个角度看来,耶弗他献人为祭,是完全拒绝神的权能,亦破坏了使以色列人成为神的圣洁子民的那个盟约。

 

??同样令人难以接受的,就是神既然预先知道耶弗他会违反他的律法和违背他的盟约,为什么神仍然让耶弗他战胜仇敌呢。要理解这件事,便牵涉到难以解决的神学问题,因为这事件危害了神的整全性(interity of God)。

 

??那么,假如耶弗他的确将自己的女儿献在坛上,又会有什么事情发生呢?正如德里兹(Delitzsch)所指出的,耶弗他女儿履行父亲誓言的整段记载,都暗示了她是献身于敬拜耶和华神的工作,在全国性的圣所内,终其一生。根据士师记十一37-38,她被允许有两个月哀哭的时间,并非因为她即将死亡,却是哀悼她要永远保持处女的身份(betulim),以及她父亲的谱系无人继承,因为她是独女。当一个女子离开族人而参与会幕崇拜的工作(参看出三十八8;撒上二22。这两段经文都记载奉献给神的处女在会幕工作),她就永远不能成为母亲;因为经文强调她「终身没有亲近男子」(士十一39)。假如耶弗他的女儿确实被杀死,上面那句经文便是毫无意义的注脚了。

 

??耶弗他实践诺言,将女儿献为活祭;他表现出尊贵的风范。新约亦有要求每个真正的基督徒都将自己献为活祭(参罗十二1)。假如耶弗他的确将自己的女儿宰杀了,做出如此可憎的事情,也不会在希伯来书十一章内被列为信心的伟人之一了(读者欲知道有关这条问题的详尽而巧妙的分折,可参看Keil and Delitzsch,Ioshua,Judges,Ruth.PP.384-95)。

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发表于 2008-9-25 19:21 | 显示全部楼层

这段经文原来大家都在想,呵呵。以前听讲道者从这段经文中得出的教导是:不要随便许愿。所以每次读经到士师记时,看到这段就觉得很悲。

 

可是后来有一次我看了以后,心中有一个感动,耶弗他向上帝许愿说:“你若将亚扪人交在我手中,我从亚扪人那里平平安安回来的时候,无论什么人,先从我家门出来迎接我,就必归你,我也必将他献上为燔祭。” 他回来时,他的女儿拿着鼓跳舞出来迎接他。然后后面介绍她说:女儿终身没有亲近男子。

 

我就看到,在耶弗他的家中,上帝看中了耶弗他的女儿,别的人他都看不上。忽然就觉得耶弗他的女儿是一种荣幸了,能被上帝看上。而她也确实是蒙了上帝的喜悦,从她的回答中可以看出:父啊,你既向耶和华开口,就当照你口中所说的去行,因耶和华已经在仇敌亚扪人身上为你报仇。她是一个敬畏上帝,顺从上帝的女子。

 

所以,我就不再觉得这段经文记载是一个悲剧了。  不过,要小心哦,上帝的耳朵是很灵的,上帝的脑袋是非常智慧的,上帝的眼光是很高的,要好的,够得上他心意的(这样说,其实也是已经非常让上帝降卑了)。虽然他很谦卑,自己降卑来就近我们,与我们作朋友。所以千万别用随便漫不经心的态度对待天父,要象对待一位非常精明,非常智慧,非常有判断力的爸爸那样,敬畏他,在他面前小心行事。

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